Crystal Blanton of the Pagan Newswire Collective recently interviewed me via e-mail for an article she is writing on the upcoming Pagan Alliance conference on Gender. I thought I'd post the full text of my answers here, since I worked hard on them and am sure they cannot be included entirely.
Name and position you would want to be used?
Yeshe Rabbit, Presiding HPS of CAYA Coven
What role are you playing in the upcoming Pagan Alliance event?
My Coven, CAYA, is a sponsor for the event, and as the 2011 Pagan Alliance Keeper of the Light, I will be in attendance. I am also one of the presenters. I will be offering, with other members of CAYA, a Ritual of Radical Forgiveness, designed to help everyone come together in heartfelt compassion, regardless of whether they agree, share similar experiences, or feel dubious about one another's views.
Why do you feel this event is important?
This is an important event because it is the first time that a pagan organization as large and active as The Pagan Alliance is giving thorough time and space for us to work communally on a challenging topic in safety and mutual concern. This is a polarizing topic, a controversial topic, and a topic that arouses a lot of emotions. When we engage the topic of gender in the private sphere with people who share our opinions, it leaves us little room to experience the challenges that might expand our opinions. We just soak in the warm, comfy pool of self-affirmation of our own views. When we engage the topic of gender in the wider, non-pagan public sphere, an unhelpful defensiveness can creep into the discourse because we do not trust that everyone involved in the discussion actually cares about our personal feelings and experiences--after all, "they" don't know us or owe us anything. We might feel misunderstood or anxious to make ourselves vulnerable. We might fail to open up. This event provides the structure of classes and workshops to offer many different perspectives, as well as social forum in which to meet others, discuss what we have shared and learned, and hopefully come to an appropriate place of respectful common ground.
How has the previous year of controversy and discussions effected the Pagan community at large and your personal Pagan community?
(Laughs) How has it NOT affected EVERYONE? Seriously, I could go on and on...this has been a year of tremendous growth for the entire pagan community. Interestingly, I feel that although the core issue of this debate has been gender, the larger issue that has emerged is actually about the need to establish effective social contracts. It's no longer possible for pagans to really remain insular, isolated, and uninvolved with one another. In the past, we were forced or had the choice to remain anonymous and separate. But now, due to this galvanizing issue and also due to the emergence of many pagans savvy with new media, we are being asked by the Powers that be to connect on a deeper level. We can't just get away with the polite, sterile niceties of "Merry meet" and "Blessed be" in our real-time or online relationships with other pagans any more. We actually need to learn how to effectively talk with one another and listen to one another, and to establish a common protocol of courtesy and kindness.
The issue of gender has provided a unique lens through which we can analyze our social interactions. For example, before PantheaCon 2011, I did not know there was a term more appropriate than "women-born-women." I did not know this term was offensive to anyone, having heard it used widely and without incident for many years. I did not know that the term "cisgender" existed. This is not because I had a closed mind or closed eyes; it just, literally, had never crossed my screen before. I went to a liberal college in my younger days, I studied women's studies...still, I did not know about these terms or their importance. I believe many people shared this ignorance. As I watched the debate unfolding online, I saw how many otherwise well-meaning people were unknowingly angering gender equality activists with their choices of terms. It was frustrating to watch people try honestly to be kind or fair and then get slapped because they didn't know how to communicate their thoughts in an unoffensive way. It was equally frustrating to watch otherwise-respected pagans issue forth hate speech and hysterical commentary from a place of fear, especially leaders we have counted on to model good example and maintain cool heads in times of turmoil. We saw (at least, I know I saw) many instances of individuals on all sides of the debate lashing out in anger and rage without actually knowing all the data or without the consciousness that there was a real human being on the other end of their big, angry rant. I, personally, received death threats, threats of violence, long letters shaming me and CAYA Coven (often for things that had not actually happened), and a HUGE onslaught of really inappropriate commentary that was vicious, cruel, and unhelpful to the already-escalated situation. All from people who claim to abide by the Rede or Law of Three, but clearly do not when their heads are hot. It was bloody and painful, as war always is. And war is actually never the best solution. It bespeaks a fear of weakness where the greatest strength would be vulnerability and softness. I think many of us know that, but forgot it. We need to remember.
The issue of gender inequality in the pagan community addresses a problem, to be sure: a problem of education, understanding, privilege, and biological determinism. But the issue that really showed itself to be the disease of which the gender issue is but one symptom was that of a lack of shared set of guidelines with which we can approach challenging topics together safely, compassionately, and mindfully. Obviously, without a single common Tradition, we are all able to enjoy greater diversity. No one wants us to lose that precious diversity. But without a commonly agreed-upon code of conduct for our process of exploring our similarities and differences, we are doomed to either fight with one another until we return to isolationism, or else skim over deeper matters because of fear of retribution. My hope is that all parties learned from this experience that compassion and gentleness are key in approaching topics or issues that we don't understand or agree with, if we are to have any hope of mutual support for our individual paths. In short, kindness matters.
On the Coven level, The Amazon Priestesses have been a private, invite-only Tradition for a few years now, so that has not changed. However, we decided to close membership entirely for the coming year so that we can regroup, focus on our ongoing growth and personal work in the Blood Mysteries, and heal from the vitriol that was directed at us from many far corners of the globe. On the larger front of CAYA Coven, we had an opportunity to publicly re-affirm our already-existing commitment to gender diversity and inclusiveness in our rituals and our Wildflower Clergy training program. On the personal level, I am working on a project called The Daughters of Lilith, which will be a free, monthly phone-in conference for transgender and cisgender women all over the country to call in and get to know one another, establish common bonds of sisterhood, and find our way toward wholeness together. I also have other projects in the works of a personal nature addressing the concept of ethics in paganism, with an eye toward creating more safe spaces for these kinds of challenging conversations to unfold to everyone's mutual benefit and growth.
What do you hope to get out of the upcoming event?
I hope, personally, that I and everyone who attends the event has a wonderful time, grows and learns a lot, and feels that they have both been heard and have heard others, profoundly. I pray that the existence of this event and others like it that may yet emerge signifies a new dawn of potential understanding and healing for every pagan who has struggled with gender-related violence, mockery, or prejudice. My heart lifts with that hope.
Excellent interview, Rabbit! Thanks. Blessings, Macha
ReplyDeleteThank you for doing your Amazon Priestess work. As a lifelong Amazon myself, Amazon Warrior, Amazon Witch and Amazon Priestess, and Dianic oriented, I feel strongly that we do need our born female space to share both the blood mysteries and living as a lifetime from birth as a Female. Many of my Michfest sisters and other Dianic and/or Amazon oriented women feel similarly and have often been silenced about this.
ReplyDeleteThere are times to work separately and times to work together.
-In Sisterhood,
-FeistyAmazon
I'm so tired of this rhetoric. You can't be "silenced" when you're the vast majority. Cissexual voices frequently don't just silence trans voices, but take violent revenge on us for speaking out.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't make a coherent response to arguments for inclusion and openness, that's not 'silencing,' that's your heart talking. Listen to it instead of drowning it out with anger.
All I'll say Kate LBT is that rhetoric flows both ways.....I hope the rituals Rabbit has done around this have maybe changed some hearts and minds to hear the other side.....if respect isn't mutual, then there's little hope for REAL understanding.
ReplyDeleteI dedicate this to all my sisters:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/PtDrlk7vnkI
I respect every single person's right to fully express themself in safe, sacred space (deliberately vague in pronoun use, not ignorantly grammatically incorrect, for those whose inner English teacher just clutched her pearls). I respect that this is a very challenging issue that causes a lot of people on both sides a lot of pain and significant emotional response.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do not respect blanket exclusion, nor do I respect assumption regarding the intent that underlies specific policies. I do not know why the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival organizers have made the choices they have made, which often is read as based in fear or hate. I do not respect the actions of Camp Trans or other groups that deliberately attempt to disrupt and ruin that event in harsh or angry ways. There has to be another way this issue can come to a truly profound resolution. I am working on this in my mind and it is an issue of voluminous proportions and perspectives. I plan to publish further posts in the coming week or so that detail some of my personal complexities with this issue in an attempt to create more harmonious approaches to the conversation for all.
It is my hope that no one on either side of this issue will come out at the end feeling like they have "won." When our idea of "winning" over another woman supercedes our commitment to sisterhood with ALL women, we then fall once again into the thrall of patriarchy, and our detractors just laaauuuugh at us for even trying to empower ourselves. What I am dealing in here is real power, personal power, power of the majority who want peace and power of transformation. It requires real courage and willingness to listen and learn. I hope all involved in this issue can begin to do that, rather than just blindly duking it out over and over and over as the patriarchy swells around us and the bigger issues of our well-being go ignored.
I feel that the backlash in women's spaces is here again against trans women daring to assert that we have a place there. Once again, the majority culture musters its solidarity against the insolence of a minority demanding to be treated as an equal.
ReplyDeleteKatie- which I agree that there is significant backlash on both sides of the debate, I would hardly accuse any woman of being "the majority culture." Although cis-gender cissexual women account for the largest population in this country, we still hold the minority in institutional power. I believe this is part of the reason why, when women have struggled so hard to create our own internal institutions where we ARE powerful, there is a seriously defensive, protective vibe about opening them up to people who, though not in their hearts and souls perhaps, have experienced the un-asked-for, unearned, undeserved privilege of being born and read physically as male.
ReplyDeleteOne area I find fruitful for exploration here is to ask ourselves, "What might happen if we stop comparing hierarchies of oppression and instead just traded personal stories?" Someone who doesn't know you might read your words here as hateful. I know they are not hateful, because I know you. You might read someone else's words as hateful, but they might just be speaking from fear. How can we get past these issues when we're busy slinging angry, frustrated, fearful rhetoric at one another?
Rabbit- Isn't that like saying that a bisexual or pansexual person in a mixed-sex relationship experiences heterosexual privilege? It might appear to be privilege, but the perception is based on erasure of the person's non-normativity.
ReplyDeleteIMHO, privilege is located in two places: 1) institutional power and 2) in the eye of the beholder.
ReplyDeleteWhen the institution in question is a private organization, it is their right to grant whatever privilege they wish. IE, to belong to the Polish-American Society of Wherever, I might need to be able to clearly demonstrate that I am a Polish-American. The evidence they require for this may be anecdotal, or they may require a blood test, or I might need a reference from an actual member...the organization, being private, gets to say what constitutes the privilege of membership. Full stop. That is because that private organization did whatever work was needed (organizing people, filling out forms, renting a hall, etc) to have the privilege of determining how they will conduct themselves and their membership system. Now, due to my political nature, I may choose to eschew such a group, stating that it is unfair to the Swedes, the Russians and so forth. But I am not in a position of power to tell the group they are not allowed to operate however they want. The group has earned the privilege to determine its boundaries.
When the institution in question is governmental in nature, then there are criteria provided by federal, state, and local governments that determine what privileges will be given to which groups. When a set of privileges are agreed upon as "good to be shared by everyone" by the governments, we begin to call them "rights" instead of privileges. Make no mistake- they are still privileges, they are just sanctioned at the highest legal level, and are thus deemed "rights." However, we see that these rights are often selectively granted even when they are well-outlined, voted upon, and agreed-upon. Most governments agree that privilege should NOT be limited based on race, class, sex, religion, or physical ability. Some governments agree that it should also NOT be limited based on sexuality or gender identity. While these principles may be held, written down in law books, and supported by the voting populace, they are STILL patchily applied (as, in many places, there are still old laws on the books that directly confront and even contradict later laws, and thus form loopholes for police and lawmakers to occasionally be considered "justified" in enforcing hateful actions or legislation that serves to take agreed-upon privilege, or "rights" away from a group or individual. So even though there may be laws saying that one cannot be discriminated against on the basis of religion, an out witch teacher in a public school in a rural area might still be afraid of losing her job due to pressure from the local parents, etc. These kinds of cases happen all the time. If they made it to the Supreme Court, the law would uphold the person's "right" to freedom of religion. But since most of these cases don't go to the Supreme Court due to the fear, resignation, or lack of funds of those persecuted, we do not see the protection of our rights enforced as often nor as consistently as they ought to be.
In terms of "privilege in the eye of the beholder" I think that it is a truth; most people call 'em like we see 'em. Most people look at my heterosexual relationship and see privilege. Others may look at my whiteness and see my privilege. Others may look at the fact that I own a store and see privilege. The fact that I have experienced homophobia is not apparent. The fact that I come from a mixed-race family that experienced racism is not apparent. The fact that I worked for many years for 7 days per week and sacrificed a lot in order to enact my dream career is not readily apparent. The only way anyone would know these things is if they actually took the time to talk to me. Hence, my question: "What might happen if we stop comparing hierarchies of oppression and instead just traded personal stories?"